SCBWI Moderator (SCBWI): Our guest tonight is agent Erin Murphy from Erin Murphy Literary Agency. Erin Murphy Literary Agency, founded in 1999, represents authors and author-illustrators of works for children, middle graders, and young adults, focusing primarily on novels and picture books. Erin works with more than fifty clients, including:

Kelly Bennett (Not Norman)
Elizabeth Bluemle (My Father the Dog)
Deborah Halverson (Honk If You Hate Me, forthcoming)
Mary Hershey (My Big Sister Is So Bossy She Says You Can't Read This Book)
Robert Kinerk (Clorinda)
R.L. LaFevers (Werewolf Moon)
Janette Rallison (It's a Mall World After All)
Laura Resau (What the Moon Saw)
Elizabeth Van Steenwyk (Prairie Christmas)
Susan Vaught (Stormwitch, Trigger)

She got her start in publishing at Northland Publishing/Rising Moon Books for Young Readers, where she was Editor-in-Chief; she still lives and works in Flagstaff, Arizona. She loves knitting with a cat in her lap, walking through the woods with her dogs running circles around her, listening to her niece talk circles around her, traveling in the off season when the destination is quiet, watching DVDs (especially whole TV series in marathon sessions), kayaking, eating dark chocolate, and of course, reading. Her favorite genre to read in her downtime is fantasy.

SCBWI: I can see the questions are already piling up in the queue -- Erin, you're popular!

Erin Murphy (EM): Hi, everybody! Thanks for coming. I think I may have some clients lurking in the room, too--the peanut gallery. :-)

SCBWI: First off, Erin, what genres and age groups do you represent?

EM: I only work with children's books--ranging from baby books through upper YA novels.

EM: That primarily means novels (for middle-grade and young adult audiences) and picture books, although I rarely sign new picture book authors these days. I don't do much with novelty books, haven't done a board book, and don't work in the educational/institutional arena or with magazines (as most agents don't). I don't work with illustrators (I'm not an art rep), but I do represent a couple of author-illustrators, and definitely have an interest there.

Siri: What genre do most of your authors write?

EM: Across the board. I wouldn't want to limit it to just one genre. I love reading fantasy, but I don't actually represent a lot of fantasy writers--just a handful. I would say you could call the majority "literary," if that helps.

Amloughrey: How many new writers do you add to your client list each year?

EM:That's a really good question; I don't think I've ever tracked it quite that way. Maybe three or four? It goes in spurts; I've signed two in the last month.

orchardlenny: Can you elaborate at all on why you rarely sign picture book authors? is it the market or are you not getting interesting submissions?

EM: Well, picture book writers tend to have multiple projects, whereas with novelists you're generally only working with one or two at a time. And since the market is tight for picture books, I feel like I have plenty of picture book manuscripts to send out.

TheCaptain: Can you list a few of the qualities which make a manuscript rise above the other submissions you receive and stand out enough that you say, "I've got to sign this author?"

EM: I wish I could. Saying, "I've got to sign this author" is exactly what it takes--if it would break my heart to see the author working with someone else, I sign him or her up. If there are any reservations, I don't.... I would say voice is the strongest consideration, but that's so cliche--everybody says that! I have to be excited about the concept, the writing, see a place in the market for it, and connect with the writer, too.

kelcrocker: Hi! What do you think is most important in developing a good agent-author relationship? And how do you like to communicate with your authors?

EM: I think it's important to establish up front what your expectations are of each other--that's key. I communicate with my authors often, mostly by email, sometimes by phone, occasionally in person (that's the best). Many of my clients are also part of a chat group, so there's ongoing group communication there, too. I send out group emails to my clients to make announcements about sales, reviews, awards, my schedule, and so on.

swimmer: What do you like to receive for a novel submission: full manuscript, a few chapters? And what do you want to know about the author?

EM: I like a query letter to tell me about you, about you as a writer, and about manuscripts you have ready to market. If you've had some near misses with editors or strong relationships, or have particular things you're wanting to accomplish, let me know. Let a little of your personality shine through--don't be completely formal, but also keep it professional.

Lynn: When is the best time to query an agent? When you already have an editor asking for revisions on a manuscript?

EM: Well, some would say the best time is when you have an offer from a publishing house, and that's definitely nice.... But I would say the best time is when you're ready for an agent. I feel like too often, beginning writers especially are focused on finding *any* editor or *any* agent, rather than strengthening their craft and making strong connections. If you have only written a couple of picture books or a partial novel; if you have never been critiqued or been to a writers conference; if you don't know what the basic points of etiquette and formatting and standards of practice are in this industry, then you're not ready for an agent. I ask you not to send me a query at this stage of your development.

myscribe: How important are credentials versus writing quality when considering a potential client?

EM: It's not so much a question of "credentials" to me, so far as writing credits, as knowing the writer is devoted to craft, immersed in the world of children's writing, developing resources in the form of critique groups or mentors, and so on. And that is very important to me--I don't want to have to teach a writer the basics of the industry. But it doesn't matter how much work the writer has done and how many people he or she knows if the writing isn't high quality, or if I don't connect with it. Sometimes (often) the response is very subjective.

rose: How much editorial work do you do with your authors?

EM: It depends on the author. Because I have an editorial background, I tend to do quite a bit of work on a manuscript before sending it out. I try to always keep in mind, though, that the editor has to see herself and her process in a manuscript, too, and not go too far--just get a manuscript to the point that it feels ready to acquire, not ready to send to the book printer, if that makes sense. I try to make sure the first few chapters of a novel are really, really clean, too--well-proofed.

piper: Do you ever see a submission and ask for revisions, then take another look?

EM: Absolutely. Almost always, in fact. It's good to know whether my thoughts on revision feel right to the writer, and good for me to see how the writer responds to criticism, how well he revises, and so on.

cousinruth: You spoke earlier of "near misses." If I am currently in a "near miss" relationship with a publishing house, (i.e., this is nice but can you show us something else, etc) would acquiring an agent help get a hit?

EM: I often feel that I find success with writers who are just on the cusp--lots of near misses. I do think an agent can make a difference in those situations because she can find better editorial matches, or see the underlying truth in what one editor is saying, or the commonalities in what several editors are saying.

SCBWI: What are some current trends you're seeing, and what would you like to see more (or less) of?

EM: Well, areas like humorous chick lit and vampire stories have certainly been successful in the last few years, but I don't really like signing new people who are doing things that a bunch of other people are doing already. If you've seen several sales of a book like yours announced on Publishers Lunch recently, I'm probably not a match for you--I don't tend to get on the bandwagon. I also see a lot of submissions that don't grab me because they feel like solid, nicely done stories that don't take any risks and don't go anywhere new. I really like fresh material, things that have never been done before, things I've never seen. If it could have been published ten (or even five or even two) years ago, it's generally not as interesting to me, unless it's so deft and wonderfully nostalgic that it feels like a new classic--and it's awfully hard for a new author to pull that off, as so often those stories come from established names. One of the trends I'm seeing that I like is the blending of genres--historical fiction with a paranormal element, fantasy with romance, and so on.

Kerdust: Some houses say the next 'big' area is MG, others say YA, others say that, due to generation X-ers having young children, it will be PBs again. Where do you see your agency growing or focusing?

EM: I'm always interested in having a range of projects, and I think most editors feel that way, too. That's one of the great things about working in children's publishing--you're not stuck with just nonfiction or just literary fiction or whatever--and you can publish for many ages of readers, too... But I know many editors are having a hard time finding strong MG right now.

phoebe: What's the most important thing you look for in the first chapter of a novel (specifically middle grade)?

EM: Again, not to be cliche, but voice. Voice and character are key--I can't just like the voice and the character, I have to adore them (or be so intrigued by them) that I can't stand to be away when I'm not reading.

SCBWI: We've had several questions from international authors. Do you accept submissions from outside the US?

EM: Sure!

July: If an author has several manuscripts and you are interested in some of them, but not all, how does that work? Would you represent only certain ones, and the author could market the others without representation?

EM: That's a good question, and it has a complicated answer. Technically, the way my author-agent agreement is worded, if I'm not interested in representing a particular project, the client is free to do whatever he or she wants with it. And I do have a couple of clients who will pursue markets for a manuscript when I don't think it will fly. Sometimes they bring me in for the contract, sometimes not--entirely up to them....

But when I don't think a project will fly, it's mostly a matter of current market conditions and hard-to-pinpoint factors that tell me, "This would be a better manuscript for down the road; this one is going to open doors, so we'll start here." And so on. So I would hope that the client would be open to my reasoning and willing to put aside a manuscript if I don't think it's the right time for it....

Sometimes, it's a matter of a project being too ambitious for where the writer is currently. I think the client will mature as a writer, and then it will be time for a particular project to be revisited.

SCBWI: How does not living in New York affect your agency?

EM: It doesn't affect my work in many ways--I work via email much of the time, visit editors in New York, at conventions and conferences, and so on, and they're just on the other end of the phone line...

But I think being from the West and living in the West means I have a different sensibility, attract different clients, *meet* different clients, and so on. Editors have said they like that I bring in people that New York agents might never have met.

SCBWI: Can you give us some example of your favorite books, and tell us why they're your favorites?

EM: I always hate this question, because it's so hard to pick favorites! I think I answer it differently every time I'm asked. (For another answer, go to www.f1rstpages.com and click on “Voices in Children's Publishing.”) I tend to like “value-added” reads--books that have many layers, many things going on that work well together--or else comfort reads, total escapism, so long as it's really well done, not trashy or poorly written. Here are a few examples of things I've read recently, which I did *not* represent and that really stuck with me....

Picture books: Traction Man Is Here!, by Mini Grey--a universal phenomenon (playing pretend with an action figure) in a truly funny and kid-authentic way; I also like the panel-art feel of it. I love the Pigeon books by Mo Willems for their buoyant fun and complete simplicity--again, so kid-authentic and funny....

Barbara McClintock's Adele and Simon has such wonderful, nostalgic artwork that you can get lost in. Jazz, by Walter Dean Myers and Christopher Myers, really stands out to me in that it isn't *about* jazz, it *is* jazz, brought to life on the page. That's how great picture book nonfiction should be, in my mind, not a distant lens looking at something but jumping into the middle of it and embracing the whole of it.....

Frankenstein Makes a Sandwich, by Adam Rex, is great for a similar reason, although it's not nonfiction, it's poetry--the author-illustrator clearly adores has inhabited that world of Saturday-morning monster flicks, and brings that to life here with the humorous sensibility I imagine him having as a kid in front of the TV. I really believe in his love for the subject. As for novels...

Boy, I'm having a harder time with this one--I think I lent out all my recent favorites so they're not on my shelves to prompt me! I read Lesley M. M. Blume's Cornelia and the Audacious Escapades of the Somerset Sisters in galley a year ago and it really stuck with me as an outstanding example of middle-grade fiction--wonderful, lovable, unforgettable characters; a strong sense of place; fantasy and adventure woven into real life in the form of stories told to the main character; and that aching feeling of loneliness--and loneliness overcome--that so many kids feel at a particular age....

I loved the YA novel Saving Francesca, by Melina Marchetta--I read it in paperback, and from the cover, I thought it was chick lit, but it was so much more--very difficult issues going on in a real but different high school environment, but with humor and a strong group of friends coming together--a girl finding a place in her own community, separate from her family community....

Jennifer Donnelly's A Northern Light isn't brand new, either, but it's my favorite historical fiction of the last few years--two timelines running along side by side, a mystery plotline, those wonderful dictionary words at the opening of each chapter--a lot going on, but all working together so wonderfully well, and it's so much more than old-fashioned historical fiction that exists primarily to portray a particular time and place. And the writing is gorgeous....

It's been such a strong year for YA fiction, and I have a huge stacks of YA novels I've ordered and galleys I picked up in New York last month, but my recent reading has been more comfort reading--the new Tamora Pierce, Beka Cooper: Terrier (*great* new Pierce character, not as strong a plot as some of her others, but I loved her portrayal of Beka's shyness, and my inner child reader loves the way you can always count on some things with Pierce's books: adult teachers are caretakers you can trust, and female friends will stay true). I'm reading Wintersmith, Terry Pratchett's latest Tiffany Aching adventure, out loud with my husband right now--how can you read the Nac Mac Feegles dialogue and not want to read it aloud with someone? I've got New Moon, by Stephenie Meyer, up next--can't wait to get back to that fabulous, heart-rending romance between Bella and Edward! Oooh, how I'd love to get my hands on the kind of romance novel that makes for compulsive reading and help bring that into the world!....

Okay, okay, I'm stopping now—I could do this for the whole hour and a half, asking you what your favorite recent reads are and getting all excited about them, too.

clara: Do you like to see graphic novel manuscripts?

EM: I'm not a graphic novel reader, but I'm working on it, and I'm very intrigued by the ways I think graphic novels and other formats are starting to intersect, so I'd definitely look at submissions in this area. I represent Ruth Barshaw, whose Ellie McDoodle book is a sort of middle-grade novel/graphic novel hybrid that Bloomsbury is publishing in the spring.

Kerdust: How do you see the growing e-book industry affecting the more traditional children's publishing market - does it affect the work you are able to do, or have an impact on what you look for?

EM: I don't really see it affecting anything. About ten years ago there was a lot of hubbub about ebooks replacing traditional print books, just like there was a lot of hubbub a few years before that about CD-ROM replacing traditional print books. I think new formats add readers, rather than taking them away, but I don't see them as a significant enough part of the market to affect what I do or what I look for.

SamuraiGratz: What's your opinion on high advances that may not earn out versus more moderate advances with royalty potential? Do you favor one strategy over the other with your clients?

EM: I'm definitely a conservative in this arena. I think inflated advances don't do anybody any favors. However, I do expect *fair* advances for my clients--so a project that is very much in demand or extremely timely should be rewarded accordingly, as should the latest project from a proven author. I think it's always good for a book to earn out, and earn out as quickly as possible, so the author starts getting regular royalty checks.

Lynn: What should an author try to negotiate in a contract if they don't have an agent yet?

EM: Oh, that could be a very long, very complicated question! I did a seminar in Colorado, an hour and a half just on negotiating a contract, and we barely touched on the major deal points!...

I can recommend a great book, Kirsch's Guide to the Book Contract, which goes through book contract clause by clause and shows alternate language. It's a bit out of date, but very good. And the Author's Guild has contract assistance, as well.

Deena: What upcoming writers' conferences will you be attending?

EM: I'll be spending a weekend with the V/SB SCBWI in Southern California in March 24 and 25. And with the Michigan SCBWI group the weekend of April 27. I think that's all for spring. I'm tentatively scheduled for Austin in the fall, but the dates aren't set. I'll be meeting editors and clients in Seattle for SCBWI Midwinter, but that's not a speak-in-front-of-writers thing.

EM: Can I say a little more about queries?

SCBWI: Yes, please!

EM: I'm generally closed to submissions because I'm a one-person operation and I represent about 60 clients--and I really need to keep my time focused on them, not on reading slush. So I take submissions from people who come to me by referral (such as from clients, editors, other agents, writers I know and respect, etc.), and from people I meet at conferences. This is partly to limit the number of submissions, but also to help the odds of success. I feel I'm more likely to sign someone new if she comes to me already knowing what I'm like as a person and as an agent, and she knows my tastes and strengths (and weaknesses, for that matter).

elle: How do you determine if you are ready for an agent?

EM: Well, I said early on (and I know you can't scroll back to see what was said if you weren't here yet, and I don't mind repeating myself a bit)....

If you have only written a couple of picture books or a partial novel; if you have never been critiqued or been to a writers conference; if you don't know what the basic points of etiquette and formatting and standards of practice are in this industry, then you're not ready for an agent....

On the flip side, if you're coming close with a lot of editors, or if you're published but feel like you need help pushing to another level, it might be time for an agent.

Deena: I see you recently sold a couple of novels that are re-tellings (in a way) of classic fairy tales. Do you see this as a growing trend? Or are these stories just something you personally enjoy?

EM: I personally enjoyed the writing in both very much. I only became aware of many of the other retellings on the market because of working on these two projects. I think it's sort of become a niche within a niche--ever-popular with certain readers, often breaking out beyond those readers.

LisaC: Assuming one is ready to submit on all the counts you mentioned, would you suggest pursuing publication directly through editors before looking for an agent? Or to seek an agent and submit to publishers simultaneously, etc.?

EM: I definitely prefer it if a writer has submitted a manuscript--multiple manuscripts--to editors. It's part of the growth process in this industry. I'd hate to see something that had never been out before, never been read by a professional before. However, if you feel your manuscript has been read, revised accordingly, etc., and it feels like you're working on a new level with it....

Well, I was leading up to something there, but the answer is, I don't think it matters so much, so long as you're open about submitting to multiple people. It's always good, if you're submitting to editors and agents at the same time, that you tell the editors agents are considering the project, too, so they don't feel blind-sided if an agent is suddenly involved.

kporterbooks: You said your agency is a one-woman operation. I admire that. You also said that you have a rather large client list, do you forsee adding another agent or assistant in the furture?

EM: Oh, what a good question. I don't see myself adding an agent (never say never, I suppose, but I like it being just me), but I think at some point, I'll have someone to help with the business side of things. Maybe eventually an assistant, but right now I like having filing to do when my brain is puzzling over a problem with a manuscript or client, or when I'm trying to figure out the best place to send something.

SCBWI: Can you tell us a little about what genres or themes you are and are not interested in seeing at this time?

EM: I don't handle things to the educational/institutional market, and I'm not into very commercial, mass-market feeling things. I'm rarely signing picture book authors right now, but if I saw new picture book manuscripts I loved, I wouldn't pass just because they're picture books.

Tami: Are you interested in non-fiction?

EM: If it's fresh and original and very trade-oriented (the kind of nonfiction you see in the bookstores, not just in libraries), sure. It's an area I'm working on developing, but I have a small handful of nonfiction writers already, so the odds are a bit lower there. I'm not a nonfiction reader at heart--it's something I'm having to work at penetrating the market for.

Kim Sullivan: How do you feel about the YA fantasy market these days? Do you think it's saturated, or is there room for more? Any tips on making a YA fantasy manuscript stand out?

EM: I think there's always room for new fantasy--although it's bound to slow down after this boom at some point. Fantasy readers are voracious, though. I think the key is in writing something truly fresh. Sword-and-sorcery is pretty tough right now--all the standard tropes. If you look at most of what has broken through lately (Eragon aside, with its fantastic author backstory), it's really, really original.

Howard Shirley: Are you interested in science fiction as well as fantasy?

EM: Honestly, I'm less a sci-fi fan than a fantasy fan--but that doesn't mean I wouldn't sign excellent science fiction. In fact, I represent more than one sci-fi project. But I probably wouldn't bite at really traditional science fiction.

AC: How important are foreign rights to your agency? Do you attend international book fairs (Bologna/London/Frankfurt)? Do you work with sub agents in other territories? Thank you.

EM: Very good question. This is one of the areas where I do not excel and others certainly do. I am working now to develop foreign rights co-agent arrangements, but it's happening slowly, and I do not go to international book fairs at this point. Until those relationships are cemented, I let publishers keep foreign rights (time limited) in my clients' book publishing contracts. I do have a dramatic rights co-agent.

kelcrocker: Can you say a bit more about encouraging us to submit to editors before agents? A major benefit of working with an agent is that she knows more contacts and can try to make the best editorial match. Are you just saying that we should have experience with our work being critiqued professionally before we approach agents?

EM: There are so many opportunities to interact with editors--at conferences, chats like this, and so on. Some are formal critique situations, which can be great ways to learn a lot and also make some connections. But most editors do open to submissions from conference attendees, and if you feel your work is a match for an editor you've heard speak, you should submit to her office. Developing those correspondence relationships with editors can be invaluable. It doesn't happen all the time, certainly, but often I can tell a real pro when I mention their name to an editor who has considered their work, and the editor recognizes the name immediately and talks about their correspondence. In publishing for grown-ups, submitting to agents definitely comes first; not necessarily in this industry, although it does get harder and harder to reach editors with houses closing to submissions. I think publishing companies have suffered with too many submissions from people who aren't ready or didn't study the publisher's lists.

Now, I don't want to get in trouble with editors.... So I'll beat that dead horse again and preach respect when it comes to submitting there, as well. Let's just say that a truly professional writer, really ready for an agent, will appear professional and experienced no matter whether she's submitted to editors or not.

If you do a critique with an editor and she asks you to send your work in--DO IT! Don't be shy, even if you have to do a revision that takes a long time. That's when the good stuff begins, when you submit on request.

SCBWI: Great advice!

Erin, thank you so much for participating tonight--your answers were illuminating! Your generosity is much appreciated. And thank you to all SCBWI members who participated with such great questions. We're sorry we didn't get all of them, but it would have taken all night!

EM: Thanks so much to Lauri and Jamie and SCBWI--and to all of you for your great questions and participation!